[Scotracer]

Originally Posted by imracin68j

I own just about every decent racing game made for the 360 and I have to say that Dirt offers the most realistic experience on the 360. First of all, the 360 wheel is wayyyyyyyy more powerful than Forza allows it to be. It will damn near rip the steering wheel out of your hand. It's amazing that the little gear in the wheel has that much force. The game has a tick of frame rate issues which is usally a killer for me but the game play and visuals make up for it 10 fold. The way the cars slide into the corners and the way the wheel becomes unloaded then picks back up is very well done. When I get done with a race I feel the adrinaline rolling through me. When I play Forza, its slow and redundant. Really, dirt should get racing game of the year as the physics are unreal. As someone who races in real life, I can vouch that Dirt is the real deal.

But one must ask...a WRC car has Power-steering, how are you going to feel that "pulling" as you described it, to the same degree, at least? Just because a game increases the Force Feedback power, doesn't mean ANYTHING about the game's physics.

Are you serious about how the cars slide into a turn? Have you ever actually driven a 4WD car, let alone a 4WD rally car? 4WD cars by definition are balanced around an arbitrary mid point long their chassis. The reason they are designed to be loose is BECAUSE they cannot have a front-end that will bite like a FWD or RWD car. This has not been modelled properly. The cars have been given far too much front-end grip and then the rear end just slides around, not really following it. This makes keeping a smooth arc around a corner very difficult indeed.

Let me ask you this: Just because Burnout feels ALOT faster than Forza 2, does that make it more realistic/accurate? No, it's the developers choice for how the sense-of-speed is portrayed. It has nothing to do with the physics engine. Forza 2 does feel a bit on the slow side, but it allows for much better accuracy.

Your last comment makes me think secondly about your racing experience. I've driven many a car over my short life, and I race motocross and will say that DiRT is no where near realistic. I am in the process of downloading the PC demo so I can use my Logitech G25 wheel -- the REAL deal. It destroys the Microsoft wheel in every way possible; from it's Force Feedback (newer technology and two motors instead of one), it's degree of movement (full 900 degree), to it's properly weighted pedals (accelerator is light, Brake is very heavy - so much I can't push it to the floor without moving my seat - and the clutch is somewhere in between) to it's build quality. There's just no comparison between the two.

Originally Posted by imracin68j

Playseats Evolution and buttkicker: This has been one of the best things I've bought. If you're into racing games, it's a must have. You will be able to use it on what ever system comes out in the future so it's a good investment. I picked up the evolution on amazon for 300 delivered and the buttkicker for 60 bucks new on ebay. If someone wants a buttkicker, hit me up. I have a spare I'll sell for 50 plus shipping. The bearing mod cost me 50 bucks and the wheel is around 100.

I don't have room for a racing seat but I'm perfectly happy with my sim setup right now; Logitech G25, Logitech Z680 surround sound and Samsung LE26R74BDX LCD TV...and a mother****er of a PC to run EVERY sim ever made (console games aren't sims).

Originally Posted by imracin68j

My issues with Forza. I can race any one of 8 tracks. I hit the corners the same lap after lap. In Dirt, no two corners are the same. The idea of racing ghost cars is anything but real and 99% of all the online racing is ghost mode in Forza. For those who like feeling like the real deal, forza offered no incar. Even PGR3 delivered on that.

So you're saying the type of circuit isn't to your liking, how does this reduce the realism degree of Forza? If you want to race as "real" cars, set up your own lobbies. I don't race Forza online, as is because...console gamers can't drive.

True racing sim fans don't race on the in-car view. It is so restrictive as your field of view is much-restricted. Bonnet-cam is where it's at.

Originally Posted by imracin68j

There is no turning up the anything in Forza, it's all very mild. I have to run the dirt settings 1/2 throttle. Anything 3/4 and up and it rips the steering wheel out of your hand.

Well surely isn't that a disadvantage? Turn10 (Forza devs) worked exclusively with the Wireless wheel to make it work CORRECTLY, not just over-the-top-die-mother****er-strength. On my Logitech, I always leave Force strength at the same level, and just adjust the spring-return rates, and how much the engine torque effects it.

Originally Posted by imracin68j

I like the feel of the road I get with Dirt. It feels flat in Forza. Forza to me feels like GT2. I guess I just like tossing it in sideways and picking up the throttle crossed up.

This statement is obvious and pointless. Of course Forza isn't going to have the same feel, in terms of magnitude because, by definition racing circuits are asphalt and billiard-table smooth. Oh and the driving style you're using on DiRT is slow, and won't work on Forza. Codemasters have gone the arcade-route to make the game easy enough for even a novice to slide the cars around the corner in that turning to any degree makes the car go sideways.

Originally Posted by imracin68j

I race every weekend on dirt and I've had various friends that also race and all have agreed that the physics in Dirt are dead on.

I am a Automotive/Mechanical Engineer and so is my father. We both laughed when playing DiRT.

Originally Posted by imracin68j

Watching the suspension work in the replays on Dirt in slow mode is unreal technology. You can see the trailing arms, springs and shocks moving with every bump. Unreal.

This happens in Forza aswell...your point?

Originally Posted by imracin68j

Bottom line, after playing Dirt, getting back in Forza feels slow.

BTW, Need for speed is horrible.

Read above. And I concur with NFS statement.

I will add more when DiRT finishes (I'm at around 60%).

Update:

Just played DiRT...and I still fully agree with what I've said already. This game does not handle properly in any way.

Issues:

-Car inertia inaccurate
-Tyre grip far too high (for both surfaces)
-Torque Curve wrong for a Group N car
-Front-end grip too high
-Lack of inertia means cars are far too easy to correct
-Coefficient of grip on gravel is higher than that of real asphalt

Ugh, I'll stop there...

For instance, on the gravel stage (which is different on the PC demo to 360), at the first corner it is a 4-right-over-crest. When you reach this corner, you are traveling at around 90mph...and when you crest the rise, there is no reduction in weight (and therefore tyre grip), well, that is noticeable at least. Just wrong. Also, you can brake whilst IN the turn, meaning that no matter how fast you go into the turn, you can correct. It's like the cars are F1 cars in disguise.

Oh and onto the Force-Feedback. The level of force is no higher than any other game I've tried...in fact it feels somewhat reduced from Richard Burns rally and rFactor (which has rally stages too).

Just a tip: Try Richard Burns Rally then come back and tell me DiRT is realistic.