Lebanese crisis

[Drizzle]

Are you going to back up that statement with facts? Because heres a question for you thats relevant. Where are the U.S./U.K./U.N./ to liberate Tibet From China? They were there to Liberate Kuait and the people of Iraq so why not Tibet? China states that Tibet belongs to them and not one country argues with them apart from the People of Tibet. 1.2 million people have died as a result of violence and other not natural causes since 1950 I call that Genocide. But China is too powerful Economically and Millitary too argue with.

That is my point, what does the UN has to gain if they liberate Tibet from China? Tibet is a very small country/teritory, but China is a rising superpower...so they stay away.

Anyways I hope this all turn to good

[Scotracer]

Just an update on what has been happening today:

"Four United Nations peacekeepers have been killed in an Israeli air strike on an observation post in southern Lebanon, the UN has said.''

BBC NEWS | World | Middle East | Israeli bomb kills UN observers

You think the UN can just do it's bit for humanitarian means now?

[CrAzYAmerican12]

I havent read every post in this thread, but here's what I have to say on the subject:

My opinion is that Isreal is in the right to do what they are doing. Hezbollah is just another terroist organisaztion that needs to be disamantled, peace by peace. If this means civilian casualties, thats unfortunate, but it needs to be done. Civilians by now have had warning to get out, and if they aren't getting out, well I don't know what to say to them. I for one am glad that the US isn't the only country right now that feels this way.

(By the way, how many civilians have been killed by Hezbollah rockets?? You will never know. The only thing you hear about now are the Lebonese getting killed now. Well Isreal is sick of it. Can't blame em if you ask me)

For those of you who are say the UN needs to do more-what do you want them to do? They called for the disarming of Hezbollah(sp). That hasn't happened, so why would anything else they do happen? If that had been done, then this might not be happening right now.

People who are saying Isreal is afraid to go to war with Syria or (forgot who else you said), I think you are wrong. Member something called the seven days war? Isreal defeated Egypt, Syria, and Jordan. Isreal can hold their own.

And Isreal must be doing something right-Previous to their millitary action, Isreal was having about 150 rockets fired at them a day. As of yesterday, it was 83. Sounds like progress to me.

Originally Posted by BRUTAL1TY

I completely understand what you are saying and a great analogy btw Enola.
Now I really dont see anything wrong with what we are doing right now. I just dont, and that is not my American-born bias coming through there. Simply, the UN cant do crap, the Middle East sure will continue its fighting cuz it can never solve its own problems without bloodshed. So whose going to intervene and try and get their hands dirty and fix the situation?

Ok moving on. Now I don't mean to sound like a but you guys cannot count on the UN, erase them from the equation, ok. The UN simply cannot do things right. I mean if you cant get a ceasefire then what? Send in peacekeeper troops? Yeah that worked wonders for Rwanda. Again this will only be solved by Israel and its enemies alone.

Couldn't agree with you more.

Everyone bashing the US really pisses me off. What are we doing wrong this time?? We aren't sending troops, we aren't bombing, we haven't openly supported this (even though we should). We are sending 40 million dollars of aid to the Lebonese government....Oh, you expect the US to get everything done for you.

I realize this sounds a little defensive, and it is.

Personally, I can't wait for the downfall of Iran, North Korea, and Venezuella either. But No one but the US is going to do a thing about them.

CrAzYAmerican12:

I havent read every post in this thread, but here's what I have to say on the subject:.......................................... .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .........
Personally, I can't wait for the downfall of Iran, North Korea, and Venezuella either. But No one but the US is going to do a thing about them.

Jesus!!
and you wonder why the US gets bashed? opinions like that are from people who dont have a clue of the outside world ,only what propaganda tells them: hes a terroist cause he doesnt do as i say, hes a terroist cause i dont like his culture...ect..

(And maybe if you read all the posts you might have shed some factual light on the subject.)

The war in middle east is a 99% one sided war that Isreal started. And noone is saying Isreal cant take syria.. we all know they can withbacking from US and other superpowers whats going to stop them commen sense, guilt for so many civilians killed? I doubt it its never stoped them before. How can you say Isreal is right to do it? it makes no sense, they Invaded they killed. Hezbollah are retaliating as Isreal knew they would and as any nation or army would.

Personally, I can't wait for the downfall of Iran, North Korea, and Venezuella either. But No one but the US is going to do a thing about them.

typical 'gun-ho' attitude they're free nations of the world, they have as much right to own Missiles and WMD or have a large army as the US do, or any other Nation.What gives you or your country the right to 'bring down' those goverments and countrys. Its called culture it differs, you might think its a 'threat' but only if your a naive fool.
And lets not forget the US gave most of these 'terroist' arab countrys the weapons and arms they have, during the cold war to counter a 'terroist commie nation'.

[Sorry to bash US like that but some of the above comments force me to respond.(and as always only my opinion)]

Of course you couldn't do it without insulting another culture all the while not supporting your claims with any sources. And then starting a two page flame war. Welcome to my **** list.
G-.

[Quiz]

Originally Posted by shane32ie

Jesus!!
and you wonder why the US gets bashed? opinions like that are from people who dont have a clue of the outside world ,only what propaganda tells them: hes a terroist cause he doesnt do as i say, hes a terroist cause i dont like his culture...ect..

(And maybe if you read all the posts you might have shed some factual light on the subject.)

The war in middle east is a 99% one sided war that Isreal started. And noone is saying Isreal cant take syria.. we all know they can withbacking from US and other superpowers whats going to stop them commen sense, guilt for so many civilians killed? I doubt it its never stoped them before. How can you say Isreal is right to do it? it makes no sense, they Invaded they killed. Hezbollah are retaliating as Isreal knew they would and as any nation or army would.



typical 'gun-ho' attitude they're free nations of the world, they have as much right to own Missiles and WMD or have a large army as the US do, or any other Nation.What gives you or your country the right to 'bring down' those goverments and countrys. Its called culture it differs, you might think its a 'threat' but only if your a naive fool.
And lets not forget the US gave most of these 'terroist' arab countrys the weapons and arms they have, during the cold war to counter a 'terroist commie nation'.

[Sorry to bash US like that but some of the above comments force me to respond.(and as always only my opinion)]

Since when are people considered terrorists just because their culture is different. Since when do people over power someone else because of their culture, oh wait alquada and the Taliban who kill jews and christians.

You have your views 'crazy'American and thats fine,im not going start a arguement.

But what buisness is it off yours or your countrys what a foreign country teaches there children. most Irish kids used to be brought up told of how evil England is and how they killed millions of us, and wrecked are country for hundreds of years, but noone complained cause we were a free country and it was none of there buisness.
And understand this every country in the middle east hates each other the history of that region is horrific, and peace is always on a knife edge but Isreal thinking its lead by God decided to start a war an start god knows what in the region its only going to get worse..

And I hope that Isreal gets pushed back and is shown they cant push and stamp on every arab country around them. it would make the world a better place, I have to say I think you are [...] if you think north-korea or anywhere else is more dangerous then Isreal. They know they will get away with murder so they will do it on mass porportions.

Edited for content.
G-.

[BRUTAL1TY]

Originally Posted by shane32ie

Jesus!!
and you wonder why the US gets bashed? opinions like that are from people who dont have a clue of the outside world ,only what propaganda tells them: hes a terroist cause he doesnt do as i say, hes a terroist cause i dont like his culture...ect..

Propaganda???? Our press and media is so concerned with politics, with satisfying the left or satisfying the right, and arguing over who has the better policies that we wouldnt have a chance of airtime to have propaganda. We are not brainwashed or being influenced. Americans can make their decisions on their own and can identify a true terrorist between a fake one.

Also, Crazy american wasnt necessarily sayin he wants the nation to fall, he wants a regime change. Irans president IS a psychopath. He lies about diplomacy with us and continues to produce the tech for nukes. Yes a psychopath who believes the Holocaust never happened and ultimately wants the destruction of all Jews. The Venezualan president wants to ruin the US economy by messing with oil and by promising to team up with Iran. DO YOU SEE why Americans might be slightly angry at these countries? We dont want to bring the country down, we dont want to invade, we just want a regime change, a different head of government. We want positive diplomatic efforst by these countries, which are not happening.

Originally Posted by shane32ie

typical 'gun-ho' attitude they're free nations of the world, they have as much right to own Missiles and WMD or have a large army as the US do, or any other Nation.What gives you or your country the right to 'bring down' those goverments and countrys. Its called culture it differs, you might think its a 'threat' but only if your a naive fool.
And lets not forget the US gave most of these 'terroist' arab countrys the weapons and arms they have, during the cold war to counter a 'terroist commie nation'.

[Sorry to bash US like that but some of the above comments force me to respond.(and as always only my opinion)]

Naive fool for thinking Iran and Venezuala are threats? Son of a... are you serious? I think we have a genius here ladies and gentlemen. Again Iran and NK are the biggest threats to this world.

Oh and what gives America the right to bring down governments and countries and to own all these weapons and yet say no one else can? Simply because we will not harm anyone unless forced by enemies. You dont see president bush saying "annihilate Israel" like Irans is. Iran will cause harm with their weapons, America doesnt. Simple as that.

Now also... America is and always will be a humanitarian country. When things go wrong, nations call for US help and support. Money is sent all around the world to help hurting countries. We send troops when nations need help and we send food when typhoons take out places like Indonesia. But of course, you dont believe me

[CrAzYAmerican12]

But what buisness is it off yours or your countrys what a foreign country teaches there children. most Irish kids used to be brought up told of how evil England is and how they killed millions of us, and wrecked are country for hundreds of years, but noone complained cause we were a free country and it was none of there buisness.

I don't see what you are saying here...are you justifing why its ok to lie? Because if thats what you are doing, you are immensly wrong. I don't normally say people's opinions are wrong, and I'm not doing so here, but you saying that lying is ok to to force their views into future generations is complete idiocracy and b/s.

And understand this every country in the middle east hates each other the history of that region is horrific, and peace is always on a knife edge but Isreal thinking its lead by God decided to start a war an start god knows what in the region its only going to get worse..

Are you saying Isreal was in no way provoked? If you are, well then you need to go read up on what has been happening to Isralies by Hezbollah.

And I hope that Isreal gets pushed back and is shown they cant push and stamp on every arab country around them. it would make the world a better place, I have to say I think you are a idiot if you think north-korea or anywhere else is more dangerous then Isreal. They know they will get away with murder so they will do it on mass porportions.

Um...Isreal is a responsible country. You make it sound like they are trying to create an empire by ruthlessly taking over and mass-genocide/murder. How is Isreal dangerous? Please answer that one question if not anything else. Because they are sick and tired or terrorism, and are trying to put an end to this cowardly and spineless acts of killing does not make them dangerous.

Tell me who wouldn't be tired of it?

Are you ok with terrorism?

[BRUTAL1TY]

This thread is beginning to depress me... [looks for some alcohol]

[BRUTAL1TY]

Originally Posted by CrAzYAmerican12

Are you saying Isreal was in no way provoked? If you are, well then you need to go read up on what has been happening to Isralies by Hezbollah.

Amen brother

[Scotracer]

Originally Posted by BRUTAL1TY

Propaganda???? Our press and media is so concerned with politics, with satisfying the left or satisfying the right, and arguing over who has the better policies that we wouldnt have a chance of airtime to have propaganda. We are not brainwashed or being influenced. Americans can make their decisions on their own and can identify a true terrorist between a fake one.

I completely disagree. We get US media across here, and when compared to European sources, it is no comparison. The US media loves to use catchy terms ("WMD" and the like) which IS influencing peoples opinion. Even the US government themselves have little clue as to what is going on (as stated by a former US assistant secutary of state on the BBC).

Isreal needs to be stopped. They aren't acting just because of the Hezzbullah. They are acting with such force because they know that the US, the worlds most powerful nation is on it's side and very little will stop them. Look at the Gaza strip; Isreal first took Palestine and continually uses excess force against the rebels (Tanks vs. stones) and they are doing similar in Lebanon.

Are you saying Isreal was in no way provoked? If you are, well then you need to go read up on what has been happening to Isralies by Hezbollah.

I was saying that any country in the region could be provoked into war if they wanted, I said they all hate each other and all have good reasons to go to war if they wish. Isreal have wanted to destroy lebanon and hezbollah for ages and used the 1 captured Isreal to do it, dont worry they would have found something else if they couldnt have used that.

I don't see what you are saying here...are you justifing why its ok to lie?

hmmm you seem confused, you understand that if something is said and you dont agree with it is not automaticly a lie? Yes every country exagerates the truth against a nation they hate. nowhere in my point was anything a lie.
I must have been dreaming when i saw the US invade Iraq and Afganastan and kill countless arab people, and i must be also be dreaming when every time bush is bull****ing he is clearly anti-arab and their religon, and always threating them....

[BRUTAL1TY]

Originally Posted by ScotRacer

I completely disagree. We get US media across here, and when compared to European sources, it is no comparison. The US media loves to use catchy terms ("WMD" and the like) which IS influencing peoples opinion. Even the US government themselves have little clue as to what is going on (as stated by a former US assistant secutary of state on the BBC).

Isreal needs to be stopped. They aren't acting just because of the Hezzbullah. They are acting with such force because they know that the US, the worlds most powerful nation is on it's side and very little will stop them. Look at the Gaza strip; Isreal first took Palestine and continually uses excess force against the rebels (Tanks vs. stones) and they are doing similar in Lebanon.

Well I hold true to what I say about the media, but what media do you get? FOX? CNN? There is some media outlets that I and other Americans choose to not watch because of its utter bias.

But in regards to Israel... Israel does not need to be stopped. What happens if a ceasefire occurs? Hezbollah wins! and Israel or any other anti-terrorist nation will be forced to battle with Hezbollah again 3 or 4 years from now, when its strength is back. Israel used excess force on Palestine yes, but it would have ended if the Israeli soldier was returned. No more bloodshed after that. Hamas and Hezbollah have brought this on themselves. In my opinion, Europe and other nations must have propaganda or some HEAVY agenda-setting in order to come to the conclusion that Israel in wrong doing. Sure Israel hit a UN spot and killed 4 ppl, but who's to say it wasnt a terrorist missile to direct attention of anger at Israel? Either way I dont know what to think of that, I'll have to wait for more news developments and research on it myself. I'll get back to everyone on that one.

[CrAzYAmerican12]

Your views just go to show you can't fix stupidity. Ok that was below the belt, but damn listen to yourself.

you understand that if something is said and you dont agree with it is not automaticly a lie? Yes every country exagerates the truth against a nation they hate. nowhere in my point was anything a lie.

I have told you before, I don't mind that people have differing viewpoints, but telling children that Americans and Isrealies drink the blood of Syrians and Lebonese is not exagerated. ITs completely made up. I don't recall drinking any blood of any kind lately. NO ONE HAS DONE THAT. So to say something is exagerated is one thing, to make something up is completely different.

Bush, by the way, isn't tricking anyone. We are able to make decisions and opinions of our own. You apperently think Bush tricked the US into war. Let me break it down for you. Simple version of what happened with Saddam(sp)

Saddam: I will not let UN inspectors in my country
US: Comply with the UN
Saddam: No
US: Show us what weapons you have
Saddam: No
US: Show us what you have
Saddam: No

We invade Iraq, and he wasn't hiding anything. Why he wouldn't show us that he didn't have anything?? Who knows...most likely b/c he thought Iraq would be more feared if ppl thought he had WMD. But he needed to be removed from power anyway. Musterd gassing your own people, keeping food from civilians, ruthless leadership....none of those are traits you want from a leader, er at least i don't.

[Scotracer]

I would never call Isreal as anti-terrorist. A terrorist nation is one that either promotes terrorism or actively is involved in it. What else would you call what has been happening on the West bank and the Gaza Strip? Just because it is a nations army that is killing Palestines, doesn't mean they aren't terrorists. Isreal has MASSIVE influence in the US, of course this will affect media (the government would never allow clear bashing of Isreal to occur). If there was alot propaganda in European countries, why would it be the nations leaders themselves be asking for a ceasefire?

Originally Posted by CrazyAmerican12

We invade Iraq, and he wasn't hiding anything. Why he wouldn't show us that he didn't have anything?? Who knows...most likely b/c he thought Iraq would be more feared if ppl thought he had WMD. But he needed to be removed from power anyway. Musterd gassing your own people, keeping food from civilians, ruthless leadership....none of those are traits you want from a leader, er at least i don't.

I know where you are coming from, but you cannot enter another country, or remove someone from power because of this. You can only do this if it is harming other nations, or severly threatening them (which he wasn't). You may feel you are doing a greater good, but your input is not required. Saddam had just as much right to disregard the UN as the US has done, so take a look at yourself before you start claiming that a breach of UN law is a serious crime.

[CrAzYAmerican12]

I was saying that any country in the region could be provoked into war if they wanted, I said they all hate each other and all have good reasons to go to war if they wish.

So then why is it bad what Isreal is doing if you just told me they have good reasons to go to war??

At least you are not just saying Isreal launched some random attack for no reason now.

[BRUTAL1TY]

Originally Posted by CrAzYAmerican12

Your views just go to show you can't fix stupidity. Ok that was below the belt, but damn listen to yourself.



I have told you before, I don't mind that people have differing viewpoints, but telling children that Americans and Isrealies drink the blood of Syrians and Lebonese is not exagerated. ITs completely made up. I don't recall drinking any blood of any kind lately. NO ONE HAS DONE THAT. So to say something is exagerated is one thing, to make something up is completely different.

Bush, by the way, isn't tricking anyone. We are able to make decisions and opinions of our own. You apperently think Bush tricked the US into war. Let me break it down for you. Simple version of what happened with Saddam(sp)

Saddam: I will not let UN inspectors in my country
US: Comply with the UN
Saddam: No
US: Show us what weapons you have
Saddam: No
US: Show us what you have
Saddam: No

We invade Iraq, and he wasn't hiding anything. Why he wouldn't show us that he didn't have anything?? Who knows...most likely b/c he thought Iraq would be more feared if ppl thought he had WMD. But he needed to be removed from power anyway. Musterd gassing your own people, keeping food from civilians, ruthless leadership....none of those are traits you want from a leader, er at least i don't.

I dont even have anything to add...