Lebanese crisis

[Scotracer]

Originally Posted by CrAzYAmerican12

Then according to you, Saddam should still be in power. Would that be accurate if I said that? I disagree, and support the war full heartedly.

It's not a breach of a serious crime. The UN is really a worthless organazation. They have no power. What would have been a serious crime was allowing Saddam to have possession of WMD. He has no reason for one, and he had no reason to be in power.

People talk about how they are sick of the US being a world 'watch dog', but yet now they want the US to step in and stop Isreal. What do you want then. You want US to get involved in affairs, or not?

Saddam shouldn't be in power, he is a tyrant, but the way the US (and I admit the UK) went about it was completely wrong. The amount of force used was obsurd (remember, shock and awe) and this most likely could have been resolved another way.

So, if Saddam had no reason for owning nuclear weapons, what reason does any other country have? Self-defense? So, now Iraq has no right to defend itself from other.

The UN has no power, which is completely wrong, it should have power over all nations and be able to enforce laws. As I have stated before, the US just has too much power and the UN has barely any influence on it.

''With great power comes great responsibility'' is the old phrase, and it certainly relevant to the US. The US should remain a watchdog; there just in case any large aid/force is necessary to keep the peace in any region of the world. What it is doing is unjust and completely unnecessary as it goes around policing the world.

This is where the UN should be acting. All the major nations of the world should have major talks on any particular problem and work out a relevant solution instead of the usual one nation going in and causing more problems/blood-shed. USA has the largest influence in Isreal, it should act in light of this but it is afraid too because of the large proportian of Jews in the USA.

[BRUTAL1TY]

Originally Posted by ScotRacer

Iraq had just as much right to bare arms as the US. Who says if Iraq had nuclear weapons, or other WMD's, it would use them against other nations. If I count correctly, the US has attacked more nations than Iraq ever has, so why is the US allowed to stockpile them?

Oh come on now... the US has attacked other nations but never without provocation. The US is a friendly country that does not use its weapons, period. When was the last time we fired a nuke at a nation? Oh yeah WWII over 50 years ago. Iraq would have used WMDs and Iraq would have been a grave threat to the world, just like Iran and NK is becoming. You need to understand something, that Bush is not some rutheless dicator like everyone seems to think. Imanutjob or Irans president and Kim Jung Mentally-Ill are people that should not, REPEAT should not have nuclear capabilities. Its just not smart for the world and peace. Even if they didnt attack countries with the weapons, they sure as sh** would pull their weight around because they have them. The world is heading towards WWIII whether you believe it or not and Israel is not the problem

[CrAzYAmerican12]

No, the US isn't afraid of a backlash. We arent acting like you would like us too b/c we agree with what is going on (although not openly stated). Why interupt something you agree with?

Syria, Iran, and Hezbollah are all in cahoots together, and they are all dangeous to the rest of the world.

Iran and Syria supply Hezbollah. Why? Well they hate Isreal. Who better to support than your enemy's enemy. Iran has always said that they need a nucular weapon to protect themselves against Isreal. I think they used Hezbollah as a perfect excuse to have a WMD, and they shouldn't have one.

And to whomever is saying that no one should have nukes. Yeah, your probably right that everyone would be better off without them. But the fact of the matter is that they are out there. And to use the logic that if one nation has one, everyone should have one is sheer stupidity. As you are saying that the US's large influence in the world, it should be used to keep dangerous leaders away from WMD, probably more-so than anything else.

[Jay2984]

I dont understand why some of you are letting your anti-american thinking into this thread. This was supposed to be about Israel and Lebanon not what America is doing wrong and our "gun-ho" attitudes. What do you guys want us to do, honestly????? We have nothing to lose by backing or condemning what Israel is doing, maybe this time its good for us to sit back and let them fight it out themselves so in a month or so you guys cant come back and complain about what we did wrong with handling that situatiion.

If we are so anti-arab why do we pump so much money into the middle east, and the rest of the world, trying to help these countries that need it? Its sad that you guys think you can make the US look like such an evil power when we have done a lot of good for the world. Do you guys remember either of the World Wars??? If it wasnt for us helping YOUR countries, you would be speaking German right now singing a song to a picture of Hitler every morning before school starts. I see its so easy to forget about the good things we have done. We dont hate anyone unless they have done something to affect us directly or being a possible threat to us or our allies.

Shane, bringing up Afghanistan was just plain ignorant. They were harboring terrorists, yes actual terrorists and we didnt make it up, that came onto our soil and killed thousands of our civialians. You guys are just using the same kind of thinking that you are complaining about, you have been brainwashed about how bad the US is and we are all evil who use our weapons before actually thinking which is just ridiculous.

[CrAzYAmerican12]

Originally Posted by Jay2984

I dont understand why some of you are letting your anti-american thinking into this thread. This was supposed to be about Israel and Lebanon not what America is doing wrong and our "gun-ho" attitudes. What do you guys want us to do, honestly????? We have nothing to lose by backing or condemning what Israel is doing, maybe this time its good for us to sit back and let them fight it out themselves so in a month or so you guys cant come back and complain about what we did wrong with handling that situatiion.

If we are so anti-arab why do we pump so much money into the middle east, and the rest of the world, trying to help these countries that need it? Its sad that you guys think you can make the US look like such an evil power when we have done a lot of good for the world. Do you guys remember either of the World Wars??? If it wasnt for us helping YOUR countries, you would be speaking German right now singing a song to a picture of Hitler every morning before school starts. I see its so easy to forget about the good things we have done. We dont hate anyone unless they have done something to affect us directly or being a possible threat to us or our allies.

Shane, bringing up Afghanistan was just plain ignorant. They were harboring terrorists, yes actual terrorists and we didnt make it up, that came onto our soil and killed thousands of our civialians. You guys are just using the same kind of thinking that you are complaining about, you have been brainwashed about how bad the US is and we are all evil who use our weapons before actually thinking which is just ridiculous.

Brilliance!!

[BRUTAL1TY]

*sigh* Unbelievable just unbelievable

Also just to let you know, I am doing what my avatar is doing, right now. Ouch.. [finds some Tylenol]

[CrAzYAmerican12]

Originally Posted by shane32ie

Thats because you kept on with the pro-US.
And im pretty sure there were investigations by UN and private Irish consul that they were 100% sure of torture, but The US can cover up things pretty well. It must have just been me who saw those pics of tortured prisoners last year.



Well it happens to be important over here, another problem the US isnt bothered about, just throwing it weight around as usual.
And im anti US goverment, not the people. theres gun-ho rednecks that are as bad as the goverment but otherwize i like the american people.

And just to let you know everyone i know feels the same way..

Here, let me make up a story real quick.....

I'm done talking to you, you can't argue with stupidity.

[Jay2984]

Shane man that was definately uncalled for, no other person on this thread resorted to name calling to the extent you took it. A post like this will be the reason Matt shuts down the mass debate category. I dont know what you expected out of Americans who read most of your posts, we will defend our country just like you would.


Edited for quote content

[BRUTAL1TY]

Originally Posted by Jay2984

Shane man that was definately uncalled for, no other person on this thread resorted to name calling to the extent you took it. A post like this will be the reason Matt shuts down the mass debate category. I dont know what you expected out of Americans who read most of your posts, we will defend our country just like you would.

Well said man...

[Grindstone]

Grrrrr! And this is why I opposed this forum to begin with. Not only has it degraded to name-calling, but you can't even stay on topic.

IF YOU HAVE A NEW TOPIC, MAKE A FRIGGIN' NEW THREAD! I am about ready to ban you all and let God sort it out (i.e., Matt). This is your last cordial warning. Be professional, be cordial, and be informed before you post your opinion.

EDIT:

I remove a facetious comment that undermined the severity I was hoping to convey. The following posts were deleted as they missed my meesage. STAY ON TOPIC OR MAKE A NEW ONE.

EDIT 2:

Thank you gentlemen, I just spent my evening editing your lousy posts. Sorry if there are some that I overlooked. A reminder would be that this is a thread about the Israeli/Hezbollah conflict. If you have issues to my moderating, feel free to appeal to Matt. I don't care if you are from the US, UK or UFO, you will respect each other.

[Eazy_D]

First off CrazyAmerican I havent seen anyone back up thier argument with facts and figures, lets face it a lot of the things that are going to be posted on here will be fuelled by Media or speculation. I'll do my best to back up my posts with facts based on mutiple sources on the web and i suggest you do the same. BTW I'm not flaming you when I say this but you are posting like a bigot thats intolerent of opinions lifestyles or identities that differ from your own. A lot of people have been sucked in by the Medias constant fear mongering its no wonder people find it hard to form thier own opinions and learn to understand the broader scope of things. I myself find it hard not to get trapped by the media frenzy.

Anyway please people stop and think before posting abusive or provocative replys. If someone doesent agree with you just stand by your argument and drop it.

[Eazy_D]

Right back on topic.

America, China and the U.K. have supplied Israel with the Arms they need to defend themselves against hostile forces. Since President Truman recognized the state of Israel in 1948, the United States has been Israel's most supportive ally. Since 1950, the United States has provided more than $46 billion dollars in grant military aid to Israel, a sum that outstrips military aid to Egypt, America' s next largest beneficiary, by at least $20 billion. Israel has also received many billions more in grant 'economic' aid, loans for military purchases, and used American armaments.
The U.S. now has a responsibility to Israel. I say that because it wont be long before Israel is Invaded by a coallition of middle eastern countrys and then all hell will break loose.
I'd say thats why there are allied war ships still in the Gulf.

[BRUTAL1TY]

Now that I have had some Mass Debate withdrawal and some sobering up, Im back and ready to maturely discuss Israel and Hezbollah's war

First off.. Good points Eazy D...

Now Russia may even be involved in this fight. Not militarily or anything but this shows that perhaps Russia has been in cahoots with some not so respectable countries

Gulfnews: Moscow asks Damascus to limit response if attacked

Lebanon
Published: 07/26/2006 12:00 AM (UAE)
Moscow asks Damascus to limit response if attacked
Reuters

Damascus: Moscow has asked Syria not to use Russian missiles to retaliate if attacked by Israel, diplomats said yesterday.

Deputy Russian Foreign Minister Alexander Saltanov delivered the message to senior Syrian officials in Damascus last week, as the risk of Israel's Lebanese offensive expanding into a regional war rose, the diplomats said.

"Saltanov told them Syria can use Russian anti-aircraft missiles to thwart Israeli air attacks, but that Russia objected to using Russian Scuds to retaliate," one diplomat, who did not want to be identified, said.

"The Russians don't want their missiles to hit Israeli cities. Syria, however, has more advanced North Korean missiles," another diplomat said.

Syria, which relied on Russia for military supplies during the 1970s and 80s, has diversified its arsenal in recent years to include Chinese and North Korean weapons.

Diplomats say Syria has a formidable stock of surface-to-surface missiles that can hit deep into Israel, plus an array of Russian surface-to-air batteries.

Although no longer as close to Syria as during the Soviet era, Russia has called for a ceasefire in Lebanon and said Israeli attacks went beyond an anti-Hezbollah operation."

This shows to me two things... A) Putin is trying to cover his tracks and B) Syria may get involved which will only make things worse...

[BRUTAL1TY]

Also...

MEMRI: Ahmadinejad: Lebanon Will Determine the Future of Humanity

Tuesday, July 25, 2006

Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad: "In my opinion, Lebanon is the scene of an historic test, which will determine the future of humanity. Everyone must be put to the test. Everyone. It is inconceivable for anyone who calls himself a Muslim and who heads an Islamic state to maintain relations under the table with the regime that occupied Jerusalem. He cannot take pleasure in the [Israeli] killing of Muslims yet present himself as a Muslim. This is inconceivable, and must be exposed. Allah willing, it will. You will see."


Cont'd...

This is not good at all. Ahmadinejad only wants one thing, the destruction of Israel. Some can disagree with me on whether or not Israel is in the wrong, but for the destruction? Iran's President doesnt even believe the Holocaust occurred. This is bad folks, bad... and he is only tryin to hasten an inevitable war between Israel and its neighboring countries... Look out folks cuz things are probably going to heat up

[BRUTAL1TY]

Ok I hate to triple post but at least I'm showing something of worth...

Here's some more..

Hezbollah Vows Rockets Deeper Into Israel

By SAM GHATTAS
The Associated Press
Tuesday, July 25, 2006; 6:43 PM



BEIRUT, Lebanon -- Hezbollah leader Sheik Hassan Nasrallah vowed Wednesday that his fighters would now begin firing rockets deeper into Israel, beyond the northern port city of Haifa which has suffered under hundreds of Hezbollah barrages.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...501202_pf.html

This may not be that big of a deal, cuz most of the time Hezbollah says something and does another, but if they go very deep into Israel say Tel-Aviv then can you say boom?

Allright guys and gals I'm out for the night... My apologies Grindstone, Matt and to any other mods for my previous behavior. I just got riled up and had some trouble keeping my mouth shut. Next time I'll be better!

[oli]

well this whole thing is messed up , have you seen the new from the other day Israel hitting two ambulances trying to rescue and help people from a shelled building if im right in saying this that is against the rules of war..

[Eazy_D]

America and western Europe are facing thier biggest crisis since WWII. If the situation in the Middle East is not resolved Israel may well strike at Iranian nuclear facilities.
Israel has proposed to the United States to strike Iran on several occasions this year.

According to a report, the latest proposal was raised during the Knesset Defense and Foreign Affairs Committee’s visit to Washington several days ago, where Committee members apparently attempted to “market one agenda: Launching a war on Iran.”

The newspaper quoted Knesset Member Arieh Eldad saying that “nothing will restrain Iran aside from the use of force” and adding that Teheran’s nuclear project will not end “unless it is convinced it will be destroyed through military force.”

Meanwhile, Knesset Member Yosef Lapid reportedly said threats of sanctions and isolation have no effect on Iran.

“We won’t accept the fact we need to live under the threat of an Iranian nuclear bomb and therefore we feel we should warn our friends we don’t see any solution except for acting on