PS3 in danger

citizen X · 25-07-2005, 05:37 PM

does Sony have enough time to increase their system bandwidth

All I know about this topic is that, if SONY goes in this next generation, with only 48.8 GB/s of bandwidth, it won’t mater how powerful they say the cell processor is. It’s going to choke its self to second if not last place, this time around just because of its very limited system bandwidth, not including all of its multiple bottlenecks.

They need to do some thing about their bandwidth problem. What do u think they’ll do, if anything at all,

Grindstone · 25-07-2005, 06:06 PM

Well, if they increase thy're bandwidth problem, then we'll have a pretty close race/war over the next 5 years.

In my opinion, they need to fix it. But, what will they toss out in order to keep the costs down to fix the problem. Seriously, if Sony launches the PS3 as is, it'll be a waste of hardware. Cell tech, RSX 550Mhz GPU, both will be under-utilized for gaming. What a joke. Might as well say, "Here is your new Ferrari, it'll only go 85mph, but man, it had so much potential before we got ahold of it!"

But, at the same time, I can see Sony doing nothing about it. The only thing I can think of is that they drop the 1080p support, delay the launch, and make a console with better architectural designs. The can also drop 7 bluetooth controllers, the dual screen option and half the ports on the back of the machine to help augment the cost of the machine. But really, that bandwidth needs to be fixed.

citizen X · 25-07-2005, 06:29 PM

Good analogy

I'm glad u feel the same way
I think that they put to much hype in the whole thing, and now that they can’t deliver, their stuck between a rock and a hard place. Like u said. They have a lot of crap slapped on there because of all the hype they were drenching the ps3 in.

I think this is the fist time that Sony’s gotten into big trouble with their product, mainly because of all their hype. They have no one to blame but them self’s. They promised too much and now they can’t deliver. That’s basically it, not to forget, the more stuff they shove inside that George foreman grill, to fix the problem, the more it’s going to cost. So your rite they need to cut something out

pApA SmerF01 · 26-07-2005, 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by citizen X

Good analogy

I'm glad u feel the same way
I think that they put to much hype in the whole thing, and now that they can’t deliver, their stuck between a rock and a hard place. Like u said. They have a lot of crap slapped on there because of all the hype they were drenching the ps3 in.

I think this is the fist time that Sony’s gotten into big trouble with their product, mainly because of all their hype. They have no one to blame but them self’s. They promised too much and now they can’t deliver. That’s basically it, not to forget, the more stuff they shove inside that George foreman grill, to fix the problem, the more it’s going to cost. So your rite they need to cut something out

sony's consoles have always had issues with bandwidth. but this time, they really won't be able to get around it. it affects the whole system and what you can do with it now.

in a few years, developers are going to look at the ps3 and say, "i've reached the limit on this box without reaching the limit!"...

sony doesn't have enough time (for pr reasons) to fix that problem, because it is a major architectural and technical change. you have to create new pipelines carrying more data, which is a complete makeover.

Grindstone · 26-07-2005, 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pApA SmerF01

sony doesn't have enough time (for pr reasons) to fix that problem, because it is a major architectural and technical change. you have to create new pipelines carrying more data, which is a complete makeover.

Are you serious? Then the war was over before it started. What if they kick the launch date back to Q3 of `06? Well, still, even if they did that, giving M$ that much of a head start is business suicide. I just cannot believe that Sony, with all its bright personnel, would not foresee this problem. All that great hardware, stifled by lacking bandwidth.

What this means is that the PS3 and the Xbox 360 may be comparable in performance over the first 2 years ( I say 'may be' because of the Cell processor, and the fact it has never been used and so we do not know how it will perform), thereafter, the PS3 will be stuck because of bottlenecking, while the Xbox 360 becomes phenomenal with multi-threading gaming because there is sufficient bandwidth to support it all. This is truely sad for Sony fanbois.

pApA SmerF01 · 26-07-2005, 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grindstone

Are you serious? Then the war was over before it started. What if they kick the launch date back to Q3 of `06? Well, still, even if they did that, giving M$ that much of a head start is business suicide. I just cannot believe that Sony, with all its bright personnel, would not foresee this problem. All that great hardware, stifled by lacking bandwidth.

What this means is that the PS3 and the Xbox 360 may be comparable in performance over the first 2 years ( I say 'may be' because of the Cell processor, and the fact it has never been used and so we do not know how it will perform), thereafter, the PS3 will be stuck because of bottlenecking, while the Xbox 360 becomes phenomenal with multi-threading gaming because there is sufficient bandwidth to support it all. This is truely sad for Sony fanbois.

dead serious. there's always a bottleneck in systems. for the xbox360, it's the 1MB cache for the cpu, that's simply not enough for 3 cores. but ps3's will hamper development into future generations of games for the console.

the first 2 years will be a gpu battle, because the cpu's haven't grown to multi-thread handling in the developer's eyes. after they move to multithreading, we'll see how bad the system hampering is.

it's interesting to point out that both system bottlenecks are in the cpu. xbox360's isn't all that bad, considering the cache is just for saving protocol and system commands and simple equations.

citizen X · 26-07-2005, 02:02 PM

Yeah. Now people know why so much bandwidth is so important.

pApA SmerF01 · 26-07-2005, 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by citizen X

Yeah. Now people now why so much bandwidth is do important.

hey hey now buddy, i already knew! lol!

bandwidth=speed & amount of information flowing from one protocol to another.

gpu-cpu, buffer-gpu, etc. that- is the bandwidth interconnectivity....

anyways yeah, for those people who didn't know, i commend you bro on edumacating them.

maybe later we can tackle transistors, daughter dies and maybe cache flow and its effects on system controls. lol, this'll be fun.

zCraven15 · 06-08-2005, 12:11 PM

ps3 is gonna keep the bandwidth the,"always awful way"

Dave · 07-08-2005, 04:38 AM

Nothing will be done but as I said before for most of the PS3's customers (general gamers that don't know that much, or for that matter expect that much) it won't be that much of a problem.

This would be a problem for the 360's customers as imo they tend to expect more :P

pApA SmerF01 · 07-08-2005, 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave

Nothing will be done but as I said before for most of the PS3's customers (general gamers that don't know that much, or for that matter expect that much) it won't be that much of a problem.

This would be a problem for the 360's customers as imo they tend to expect more :P

it will be a problem because with such low system bandwidth, the system will not be able to reach the label of fully-operational. what will ps gamers say in 2 years when the 360 has unlocked the mysteries of procedural synthesis, made light-year leaps in gameplay and have improved exponentially from the 1st gen games where their ps3 is still churning out "first gen" quality games?

it's a huge deal, for every gamer.

citizen X · 23-08-2005, 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pApA SmerF01

hey hey now buddy, i already knew! lol!

bandwidth=speed & amount of information flowing from one protocol to another.

gpu-cpu, buffer-gpu, etc. that- is the bandwidth interconnectivity....

anyways yeah, for those people who didn't know, i commend you bro on edumacating them.

maybe later we can tackle transistors, daughter dies and maybe cache flow and its effects on system controls. lol, this'll be fun.

!!Woe!! don’t get it the wrong way, I was talking about other people in general. U know have more knowledge of hardware then I do. I wouldn’t say that to u. Come on man Give me more credit then that

deathbringr · 23-08-2005, 09:53 PM

sony likes to hype to much and i see it like this its goin to come back and bite them in the butt before too long...

johnastro · 23-08-2005, 10:35 PM

whats the 360 bandwidth?

citizen X · 23-08-2005, 11:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnastro

whats the 360 bandwidth?

The first post on this thread is a long article on bandwidth and what it is. if you to still cant find it
here is a link

electricjoe13 · 25-08-2005, 10:43 PM

Sony is really good at marketing there systems...period. It doesn't seem to matter about the system downfalls, they market well and drench the population with as many games as possible. I for one have NEVER owned a Sony system and thus far have NO plans on ever owning one. They simply got in the mrket by 1) under cutting the Sega Saturn in price,...and then saturating the market with games. Yes the first system had innovation with an odd new controller AND surprising new gaming experiences. But so far after the PS1 I have seen through the mass marketing and gimics. What do I mean?
Well for one the supposed "emotion enigne". Uh yeah, if a lack of anti aliasing is supposed to cause emotion then I missed the boat. Lets face it PS2 was rushed. Sega surprised the market with the underrated Dreamcast, and Sony didn't want to be the one playing catch up. So why does such a supposed poorly designed and rushed system(my opinion) succeed? Thats where the marketing comes in. Yes I will be the first to say the PS2 has some great titles...but again if you pour them out as fast as possible....odds are you'll have good ones with the bad.....simple logic. I could go on and on...believe me I am an opinionated guy....lol. What does this have to do with PS3? wellll....again we have a chipset with a gimic name" the cell"....uhhhhh not impressed? You shouldn't be...most of us can see its flaws and WE are not experts. We don't program for it, and we didn't build it...but again if problems like bottlenecking is soooo clear to us now...what will we be saying in years to come about it? Other things I personally do not like about it...how many USB ports do we really need...or will this machine actually take advantage of? Even better question....did you who had a PS2 use the ones given to you on that system? Support for 2 monitors? Uhhhhh why? And again who and how many of us can or will ever use this? Am I nit picking? Perhaps....I guess I just wrote this to get you to think...it could all just be a bunch of non-sense...lol

LordGee · 26-08-2005, 08:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by electricjoe13

Sony is really good at marketing there systems...period. It doesn't seem to matter about the system downfalls, they market well and drench the population with as many games as possible. I for one have NEVER owned a Sony system and thus far have NO plans on ever owning one. They simply got in the mrket by 1) under cutting the Sega Saturn in price,...and then saturating the market with games. Yes the first system had innovation with an odd new controller AND surprising new gaming experiences. But so far after the PS1 I have seen through the mass marketing and gimics. What do I mean?
Well for one the supposed "emotion enigne". Uh yeah, if a lack of anti aliasing is supposed to cause emotion then I missed the boat. Lets face it PS2 was rushed. Sega surprised the market with the underrated Dreamcast, and Sony didn't want to be the one playing catch up. So why does such a supposed poorly designed and rushed system(my opinion) succeed? Thats where the marketing comes in. Yes I will be the first to say the PS2 has some great titles...but again if you pour them out as fast as possible....odds are you'll have good ones with the bad.....simple logic. I could go on and on...believe me I am an opinionated guy....lol. What does this have to do with PS3? wellll....again we have a chipset with a gimic name" the cell"....uhhhhh not impressed? You shouldn't be...most of us can see its flaws and WE are not experts. We don't program for it, and we didn't build it...but again if problems like bottlenecking is soooo clear to us now...what will we be saying in years to come about it? Other things I personally do not like about it...how many USB ports do we really need...or will this machine actually take advantage of? Even better question....did you who had a PS2 use the ones given to you on that system? Support for 2 monitors? Uhhhhh why? And again who and how many of us can or will ever use this? Am I nit picking? Perhaps....I guess I just wrote this to get you to think...it could all just be a bunch of non-sense...lol

It's a pretty good analysis about the PS2 (I had one, and I must say that the so-called Emotion Engine was far from all they promised it to be)...I mean really, how many games for PS2 came out without reviewers saying "Damn! there's a lot of aliasing!" ??? Very few .... I remember when Sony wowed the audience with tech demos of the Emotion Engine, and when the first games came out it was like

"What are those ugly jaggies!!!"... Heck I waited a year before being convinced to buy one.
In the hundreds of games that came out for the PS2, there must have been 10 to 20 % that graphically stood out!!! The rest was just disappointing (graphically speaking) and never lived up to what Sony had portrayed the console could do....

This time, I also believe they're using tech demos to get a big wow from the audience... Heck, in the end they're probably doing the same thing as the PS2!!! I'll be damned if the first bunch of games has some kind of horrible graphical artifacts that shouldn't appear with such hardware!!! But nevertheless THEY WILL SELL, just because it's Sony (reputation) and they know how to market well...

As for the USB ports, well all I can tell ya is that I used them for the steering wheel, the Eye-toy, and the headset....Don't remember how many ports they intend to put in PS3...

As for the support for 2 monitors, I wouldn't be surprised if they just dropped that idea to lower the price tag cause I doubt a lot of people have two monitors at home, side-by-side, just to play occasionally... And on top of that, 2 HD Monitors ???

Anyway, I used to be pro-Sony, but today I'm going 360 ....The Emotion Engine episode made me sick (aliasing...pffff!), and I think they're going overboard this time : claiming this and that and openly stating that their console will be expensive and all....

idontknow · 29-08-2005, 09:57 PM

sony probaly has an Ace up there sleeves, they could be hiding info

Grindstone · 30-08-2005, 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by idontknow

sony probaly has an Ace up there sleeves, they could be hiding info

For thier sakes, I hope so.

But really, the most valid Ace that they have up their sleeves, tried and true, is marketing. As stated above, Sony could release a PS2 in a PS3 shell, and the masses would still buy it.

I am not sure what other Ace they would have, considering the already stiff price that the PS3 is anticipated to retail for. The best bet for an "Ace" would be a decent, functioning, online service that is either free or vastly cheaper than XBL for the PS3. Guess we'll see.