How can I find out if the new 360 60g has.....

allnurmouth · 05-08-2008, 11:10 AM

Yeah I wanted to know if the new 360 60g has the new 65nm gpu instead of the 90nm graphic processor?? Also if the new 60g has "new improvements" as far as the RRod goes and over heating?? Can anyone give me some facts and info on this????

Ultramafia · 05-08-2008, 05:59 PM

rabbit would be all over this...but he's "old" now apparently. i'll do some checking but i'm sure someone else knows more than me.

EDIT:
found this in an article from may 9th,

The "Jasper" evolution of the 360 is expected to come to market at the end of this summer, with a GPU also sporting a 65 nm profile, and the "Valhalla" model with a 45 nm CPU is expected in Fall 2009.

Click Here
The 65 nm Xenon microprocessors are packaged and tested by IBM, and both the graphics chips and the northbridge (memory controller hub) components are made by Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Company (TSMC), which are then packaged and tested by ASE. Nanya Technology Corp. manufactures the chip connection ("flip chip") substrate.

BetaNews | 65 nm GPU for Xbox 360 'Jasper' due in August

EDIT AGAIN: here is your answers about heating:

Microsoft will want to begin using the new, smaller chips as soon as possible because the chips run cooler and that will help in redesigning the console's interior for lower costs and higher reliability.

Xbox 360s will have 65nm GPU soon

rabbitc · 06-08-2008, 02:00 AM

I'm still knocking about - always happy to help with technical issues:

allnurmouth - the obvious clue will be the power rating on the box. There is no guarentee that all 60gb machines will have the jasper config as M$ will want to use up any surplus Falcon boards.

Now - two things to that.
1. Falcon boards are pretty good - mine is ticking along nicely and the exhaust air has rarely been hot.
2. If you really, REALLY want a Jasper, check the power output rating on the box in the shop. The Falcons run at 175w output - this is with a 65nm CPU and 90nm GPU. As the Jasper will use 65nm GPU and 65nm CPU, the output will undoubtedly be lower (but not guarenteed) - say around 155-165w output.

This is all subject to confirmation of course - otherwise it will come down to lot numbers.

I will make a point of posting a 'Jasper Identification Guide' once the information becomes available.

But to be honest - even if you DO get a Falcon, you're still in good hands iMO.

One more thing - if you happen to find a box that says 203w output, find the nearest shop clerk and beat him over the head with it, scream 'USELESS CRAP' and run away before you get caught.

06-08-2008, 03:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by allnurmouth

Can anyone give me some facts and info on this????

The fact is that you will always have to live in fear of the RRoD, regardless of what 360 you get.

I know I do.

rabbitc · 07-08-2008, 04:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sir Charles

The fact is that you will always have to live in fear of the RRoD, regardless of what 360 you get.

I know I do.

I'm sorry, Charles - but I don't agree with that statement at all.
Word on the street is that Falcon breakdowns are few and far between - and I am reasonably confident that the new Jasper boards will improve this further.

Now I have uncovered some information on the launch 60gb model - it will be Falcon, at least initially - but they have removed two chips from the RAM set and used higher capacity RAM instead, so it IS technically better if only at a very minimal level:
Xbox-Scene News: Inside the 60GB Xbox 360 - Bottom RAM Chips Gone

The 60gb are also supposedly coming with the no-hassle Lite-On DVD drives as standard - so there's really nothing to shy away from whatsoever IMO.

My advice would be this - if you want to buy reasonably soon, I can't see any reason to wait for Jasper over Falcon since both seem pretty slick UNLESS you plan to stick your X360 in a tight corner...then I might hold for Jasper 'just in case' - but that's a big might as I have a LOT of faith in the Falcon configuration.

Otherwise - if you're very, very patient - you may want to hold off until next year and buy the slimline model.

Ultramafia · 07-08-2008, 03:41 PM

The Official Site of Benjamin J Heckendorn

hopefully that will clear anything else up.

rabbitc · 08-08-2008, 01:46 AM

He seems to guess lower on the output - 145-150w...

mordred93 · 11-08-2008, 06:36 AM

Wile I agree with everyone that the Jasper chipset should have a lower power draw due to the smaller chipsets, etc. I do disagree with the thought that you should be able to look at the power supply and see if it is a jasper. MS does not have to update the power supply or the power brick with the new chipset. Electronics 101 will tell you that you can have a power supply that is 1000 Watts and it will not harm an electric device. The reason is because an electric system will only draw as much power as required to run. Thus the 1000 Watt power supply has the POTENTIAL to provide 1000 Watts, but could only be providing 180w. I am not trying to be a downer - but knowing MS - they get a discount on the power supplies and bricks if they order a few million of them. From a business standpoint, it would not behoove them to throw away old inventory just make the system theoretically pull less.

The only true way to tell is to crack the case and void the warranty, check the lot numbers, or by seeing what a system draws in terms of current. An original 360 will draw about 1.9 Amps of power (assuming 120v AC). A Falcon will draw about 1.5 Amps of power. Assuming about the same trade off, and that the hard drive, system, power supply, and dvd drive all require about the same Amperage to run, you will see something in the neighborhood of 1.3 Amps of power (or 156w used) by a Jasper system. It it will all depend on how they label the boxes to see if that is clearly labeled or not.

Just some random thoughts.

rabbitc · 11-08-2008, 03:55 PM

Quote:

Electronics 101 will tell you that you can have a power supply that is 1000 Watts and it will not harm an electric device.

Experience 101 says that it will have a lower output so that it doesn't have to disappate unncessary heat.

Besides - there's no bloody reason to have a power supply which outputs higher than need on a fixed-spec box.

rotten_primate · 11-08-2008, 10:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sir Charles

The fact is that you will always have to live in fear of the RRoD, regardless of what 360 you get.

I know I do.

don't listen to that. the 360 can smell fear... it's that advanced.

mordred93 · 12-08-2008, 12:34 PM

@Rabbitc

I was not trying to be snotty with my response to your post, it was extremely informational. I was merely trying to be factual with some other points to look at. Yes I agree with you that why would they have a larger transformer (ie. that is what the power brick is, converting 110V AC to 12V DC) than necessary. However the fact I was pointing out that unless there was a technical reason (ie. MS changes the plug on the jasper release) then they TECHNICALLY can use the same power supplies with them with no ill-effects to the system. The system will only draw as much power as it needs. Lets say internally the xbox 360 draws 0.5 amps at 12v DC. You can put as big of a power supply on it, and as long as it provides the meets the minimum (0.5 amps and 12v DC), then you will be fine and the transformer only will draw the equivalent amperage from your plug in the wall. It does not draw any more power than is require to make the electrical circuits run on the system.

Secondly, the usage of a larger power supply (transformer) does not necessarily mean more heat. There are 3 things that you need to know to figure out the heat dissipation from a power supply. The starting wattage (ie. the 110V AC times the amperage). The ending wattage (what is coming out of the brick (same formula)) and the efficiency of the transformer. Most transformers are 80% efficient, thus the other 20% of the electricity it cannot convert to DC Amperage, is dissipated as heat. The draw of the system will be constant (minus start up which has a power spike to start the DVD and HDD, etc.) so technically, if you size the PS transformer correctly, then there will be less heat. If you don't need a 203 watt transformer, and only need a 175 watt transformer, assuming the same efficiency of the transformer, you will end up with approximately a 12.5% less heat being produced by the power supply brick assuming a full load on the power supply. What I mean is that the system is drawing the FULL 203 or 175 watts to get the full heat dissipation.

I am just pointing out that by looking at the wattage alone on the PS is not necessarily the only way to determine if it is a jasper system as MS might have 3 million extras they ordered and will deliver them to clear inventory.

Again .. I was just trying to point it out. I am awaiting jasper myself with baited breath and am an information hound in terms of awaiting how to tell the differences.

Boost King · 12-08-2008, 05:40 PM

Good post mordred. I think that was quite informative.

I agree that MS could have like 1,000,000 power bricks in stock, and could be selling them with newer model.s

I think the LOT number is still the best method of knowing what may be inside your console. But even this is flawed as I've heard of different manufacturing points producing different machines with a same lot number!

Its all too hard.

Ultramafia · 12-08-2008, 08:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boost King

Good post mordred. I think that was quite informative.

I agree that MS could have like 1,000,000 power bricks in stock, and could be selling them with newer model.s

I think the LOT number is still the best method of knowing what may be inside your console. But even this is flawed as I've heard of different manufacturing points producing different machines with a same lot number!

Its all too hard.

boost!!!!

Boost King · 12-08-2008, 10:01 PM

You rang.....

rabbitc · 13-08-2008, 03:32 AM

@ mordred - no worries mate...I didn't take offense at anything you said - sorry if I came across too strong.

Everything you said is right - I just know that M$ will jump at any opportunity to reduce heat because this is key to the RROD issue.

We should see a lower power output on Jasper IMO.

Quote:

by looking at the wattage alone on the PS is not necessarily the only way to determine if it is a jasper system as MS might have 3 million extras they ordered and will deliver them to clear inventory.

Agreed - you need to look at lot numbers. However, if they DO drop the wattage on Jasper, the wattage will be the easiest way to identify one.

...but of course, they will need to clear inventory which is why some poor soles bought Elites with the dreaded Zephyr boards.

Luckily - the worst you can do now is a Falcon board - and that ain't such a bad thing.