Upconverting DVD Players....fact or fiction?

Italia_NYC · 13-02-2006, 10:32 PM

I have yet to be impressed by these upconverting DVD players. I am a strong believer in the old adage, “you can’t polish a turd”. That is essentially what manufacturers are trying to do. DVD’s as you know them today are 480i. NOTHING, can and/or will change that. So you’re taking a 480i image and you are scaling and deinterlacing, and more scaling, and you interpolate, and you stretch and you fit; until you end up with a 720p/1080i mutated image? Does that sound at all optimal or beneficial?

99 out of 100 times, a high quality 480p DVD player will shine the floor with any upconverting DVD player. This is easily proven by performing some rather rudimentary video tests. I believe the manufacturers count on the fact that people buying these DVD players are not “videophiles” and therefore can not and will not detect the added artifacts, noise and softness introduced by the extraordinary amount of scaling and processing needed to manipulate a 480i image to a 720p/1080i image. If you can’t see it, it’s not there, right? I suppose so, and to that I say God bless you and don’t go looking for them!

I realize this may come off as an upconverting DVD bashing thread, and that is not my intention. My intentions; as they always are; is to educate the consumer (in this case the members of this board) and allow them to make their own decisions.

In fact I sell upconverting DVD players, and do recommend them to the right people, with the right display device, depending on their expectations. I only sell one Manufacturer; Oppo. If you haven’t heard of them, you have now; and if you are at all considering an upconverting model, it would be in your best interest to start doing your research on them. Their players (specifically the OPDV971H) are really quite impressive players and known for their quality/value.

As for the PS3 and 1080p; Not only will 1080p be supported by the system, but this is apparently considered the standard resolution for the system and every game will be in this format. Though most, if not all games will be written in 720p and upconverted. Is this too much too soon? Perhaps, considering such a small percentage of Americans own an HDTV set, and far, far fewer own a 1080p capable set. Couple that with the fact that 89% of the population doesn’t know the difference between HDTV and a pop-tart, and you can already see the confusion this will cause consumers; concerned whether or not the PS3 will work on their TV. However, credit Sony for looking to the future and offering this ability.

On a related note, this may be new news for some, and old news for others, but it was news to me; The Xbox360 is capable of displaying 1080p.

If you download a WMV9 HD 1080p video, you can play it on your 360 via Media Center at 720p and 1080i. This is evidence that the 360 accepts a 1080p signal. The fact it accepted this format, in my opinion, is very impressive. After researching this, I did find that ATI does in fact state that ”although Microsoft isn't targeting 1080p as a resolution for games, our GPU can handle the resolution with 4X AA enabled at no performance penalty.” Are you beginning to see where the future is going? This is really positive news on the 360 front. Technically speaking, all MS needs to do now, is release a digital interface (DVI or HDMI) and enable 1080p! It will be interesting to see how MS proceeds forward; but perhaps (unlike Sony) their intentions in not announcing this capability to the public, was to avoid further confusion to the consumer in this already too confusing market?

chubbs45 · 14-02-2006, 12:30 AM

W
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!

A
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A
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!

(not being a smart a$$)

Liquids · 14-02-2006, 12:35 AM

One of the most informative rants I've ever read. Well Done

I will use my new found intelligence wisely.

Dragonuk · 14-02-2006, 06:56 AM

He is just a technology wizzzzzzz .lol

Italia_NYC · 14-02-2006, 02:38 PM

Thanks for the positive feedback.

paymon · 14-02-2006, 03:14 PM

wow man, nice piece of writing. gj

Wingman1977 · 14-02-2006, 03:26 PM

Hey Italia, just a question from one fellow worker to another. What do you think of the Denon brand as far as DVD players. I've hear that they are one of the best. What's your thoughts on this?

paymon · 14-02-2006, 04:20 PM

well, he likes his brand

Italia_NYC · 14-02-2006, 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wingman77

Hey Italia, just a question from one fellow worker to another. What do you think of the Denon brand as far as DVD players. I've hear that they are one of the best. What's your thoughts on this?

Absolutely. By itself, the Denon name is synonymous with "high-end" and "high-quality", as a result, I only use Denon products (wherever possible) in my Home Theater. I have been a tremendous fan of them for years and been selling their products proudly for quite some time now. They never disappoint and their customer support and sales team is top-notch!

Their Flagship DVD Player (DVD-5910), utilizing Silicon Optix’s Realta chip and HQV technology was deemed the “Best DVD player” among a group of high-end competition by Home Theater Magazine and just about every videophile to walk the planet. The things this player is able to do to a standard DVD is nothing short of remarkable! And for $3000, it damn well should!

The DVD-5910 is beyond the reach of reality for the typical enthusiast, so for a more practical suggestion, their 2910 and 3910 models are the more popular sellers among videophiles. I had the 2910 (retails for about $700), and couldn’t be happier. My only reason for selling it was I went with an 800-DVD changer/management solution. But I do miss my 2910! The 3910 is around $1400 and equally impressive. They are not cheap, but you would be hard pressed to find better DVD players available to mankind. Very few times does a product or piece of equipment come around that makes me soggy in the shorts; these players are one of those!

So if you couldn’t tell; if you have the money and demand the best, you can do no better than purchasing a Denon DVD player.

Just make sure you have money left over for a DVD. lol

Rawdog81 · 14-02-2006, 04:30 PM

Thank you for the info! Very informative and clearly written

taylor410 · 14-02-2006, 04:56 PM

Would it be possible to utilize the usb ports as a plugin for a dvi or hdmi output cable? That wouldn't be a bad idea if the usb port can handle the bandwitdth.

Italia_NYC · 14-02-2006, 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by taylor410

Would it be possible to utilize the usb ports as a plugin for a dvi or hdmi output cable? That wouldn't be a bad idea if the usb port can handle the bandwitdth.

Not exactly sure what you are asking Taylor. If you are asking if it is possible to connect an HDMI cable to a USB port, the answer is no. As for the reasons why, among many others, you touched upon the major concern; bandwidth.

HDMI has a 5GBps bandwidth, the fastest USB bandwidth out today is about 500MBps I believe. That’s a HUGE discrepancy. Granted, HDMI doesn’t use half of its available 5GBps bandwidth, but 500MBps would no doubt cause a bottleneck.

Wingman1977 · 14-02-2006, 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Italia_NYC

Absolutely. By itself, the Denon name is synonymous with "high-end" and "high-quality", as a result, I only use Denon products (wherever possible) in my Home Theater. I have been a tremendous fan of them for years and been selling their products proudly for quite some time now. They never disappoint and their customer support and sales team is top-notch!

Their Flagship DVD Player (DVD-5910), utilizing Silicon Optix’s Realta chip and HQV technology was deemed the “Best DVD player” among a group of high-end competition by Home Theater Magazine and just about every videophile to walk the planet. The things this player is able to do to a standard DVD is nothing short of remarkable! And for $3000, it damn well should!

The DVD-5910 is beyond the reach of reality for the typical enthusiast, so for a more practical suggestion, their 2910 and 3910 models are the more popular sellers among videophiles. I had the 2910 (retails for about $700), and couldn’t be happier. My only reason for selling it was I went with an 800-DVD changer/management solution. But I do miss my 2910! The 3910 is around $1400 and equally impressive. They are not cheap, but you would be hard pressed to find better DVD players available to mankind. Very few times does a product or piece of equipment come around that makes me soggy in the shorts; these players are one of those!

So if you couldn’t tell; if you have the money and demand the best, you can do no better than purchasing a Denon DVD player.

Just make sure you have money left over for a DVD. lol

Thanks for verifying. Yeah they are expensive as hell. People should check out the Crutchfield catalog/website and see for themselves.

Grindstone · 14-02-2006, 05:37 PM

WTF? You mean to tell me there is a difference between HDTV and a pop-tart? You sir, are an idiot!

Casting the facetiousness aside, I think you should put "The" in front of your title of "A/V aficionado", just to keep the posers in their perspective places.

Also, that is exciting news about the ATI chip supporting 1080p. Good find, I'll pass that along (with kudos to you).

Italia_NYC · 14-02-2006, 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grindstone

WTF? You mean to tell me there is a difference between HDTV and a pop-tart? You sir, are an idiot!

Casting the facetiousness aside, I think you should put "The" in front of your title of "A/V aficionado", just to keep the posers in their perspective places.

Also, that is exciting news about the ATI chip supporting 1080p. Good find, I'll pass that along (with kudos to you).

lol....cheers!

Scotracer · 14-02-2006, 05:51 PM

Concerning the ATI chip supporting the 1080p signal, how would ms go about creating a digital interface to support the HDMI/DVI output necessary to achieve a "true high definition" signal. Wouldn't this mean a component being physically attached to the motherboard, rather expensive and almost impossible to create on a large scale if it was an upgrade to existing consoles.

Would be a nice addition to the xbox arsenal to fight the war against Sony but then again what would the huge investment achieve, a higher resolution that most consoles wouldn't be able to achieve without sgnificant hardware changes and cause the system itself to be put under more stress, ultimately anyway since the cpu and gpu aren't exactly stressed at the moment. But with Crytek releasing the next installment of the far cry series shortly and with there renowned ability to push a sytem to its upper limits, what shall the increase in res achieve, yes more clarity but ultimately lower detail, sound etc because of the stress on the system caused by such a massive jump in resolution.

1080p would be a great addition and since my HDTV can support a 1080p signal in its native form would be accepted with open arms in my home but I just cant see it being viable, maybe not for the 360 but certainly for its successor.

Wingman1977 · 14-02-2006, 06:05 PM

Hey Italia,what store do you work at? Just wondering.

Italia_NYC · 14-02-2006, 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wingman77

Hey Italia,what store do you work at? Just wondering.

I am self employed. I do this stuff for a living.

Italia_NYC · 14-02-2006, 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ScotRacer

Concerning the ATI chip supporting the 1080p signal, how would ms go about creating a digital interface to support the HDMI/DVI output necessary to achieve a "true high definition" signal. Wouldn't this mean a component being physically attached to the motherboard, rather expensive and almost impossible to create on a large scale if it was an upgrade to existing consoles.<